What is in your opinion called "Powergaming"

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No offense, but with that much heat coming out of your ears, it seems as if the powergamers weren't really the only ones who took their achievements in a game as a pathetic form of compensation for lack of real-life social / intellectual skills etc. Simply the fact that you care so much about some powergamer taking pride on his all 18's character shows that you care of that competition. Competition with roots in real-life, played in a RPG is basically powergaming.

Just don't care. Whatever results they come posting here of their fabulous half-cheated and exploited adventures, do they really matter?

 

I won't pose as if I am a real roleplayer, but I think some people see this way too black and white.

I don't think you could just say someone is a powergamer on these grounds. Maybe a true roleplayer wants to be powerful once in a while. You can play this game in more than one way, you know. Maybe you roleplay some games and you powergame some others. That's why I don't think you can easily call someone a 'powergamer' or a 'roleplayer'. Besides, 'roleplayers' might find it interesting to know what would be really powerful, they might want info on some classes too.

I think it is fun to finetune everything to make me as powerful as possible. Heck, I don't even play all my uberpowerful characters, I just like to think of how I could make them. I will admit I'm a powergamer much more than a roleplayer, but I still roleplay every once in a while. What does that make me?

 

It makes you a gamer who looks for different ways to play a game to make it fun for you. Some people seem to be hung up on how other people play the game, which is understandable in a multi-player setting, but for single-player? They need to lighten up a bit.

This whole discussion, like threads on cheese and cheats, is IMO great for getting different viewpoints on playing styles, approaches, etc.; I can review the various views and opinions and decide whether I want to change my approach to the game. But in the end, it's still just a game, and having fun is the only thing that's important.

 

Splunge, you make a good point, at least for myself anyway. I admit that I've been one of the ones who gets annoyed with cheaters and powergamers, and in fact chastising them a bit on these boards. Even arguing. But now I realize I must have a stick up my ass because really...at the end of the day, it's just a game. A very important point I seem to have forgotten at times.

So I say powergame all you want. Can't say I'll have much respect for someone who plays with a level 25 Kensai/Thief, 25 strength and the most powerful weapons and armor via shadowkeeper or the console. But at least you have the right to cheapen your own experience, should you choose to. Choice is, and always will be, the true beauty of BG2.

 

DR, my previous post was directed at myself as much as at other people. I’ve often had a “holier-than-thou” tone to some of my posts, particularly when it comes to cheese; it’s not so much that I object to a cheese tactic, as long as the player recognises it as such. The trouble is that my definition of cheese may be different from someone else’s, and that’s when I sometimes get on my high horse. The debate is wothwhile, but I could leave the attitude behind.

The same can be said of powergaming vs roleplaying; I have absolutely no problems with powergaming (hell, I do a lot of it myself), but a player shouldn’t try to pass off powergaming tactics as roleplaying (although, as this thread has pointed out, you can still roleplay a powerful character; it’s just that your focus and motivation are different). I think part of the problem is that some (not all, but some) people who see themselves as roleplayers somehow view roleplaying as superior to powergaming. IMO, neither is better or worse than the other; it just depends what kind of gaming experience a player wants. I do think, however, that in order to decide want he/she wants, a player should actually try both approaches; heck, a powergamer might find out that he/she actually likes roleplaying, and conversely, a roleplayer might have fun powergaming once in a while.

[ October 08, 2003, 16:57: Message edited by: Splunge ]

 

Powergameing is acting upon information that your Character does not and\or cannot know.

Cheese is a varient of powergameing which is exploiting the engine.

Min-Maxing stats also it, they should be in favour of your class but, 3 intelligence and you cant speak, an intelligence of lower than 9 means your character has trouble talking to people... A wisdom of 3... "That kettle is very hot sir" "Oww, *smash* your right"

Simple

 

@ Mr. Writer

The intelligence stat you posted is for 3rd edition rules, not 2nd edition. There are several NPC's in BG2 (Minsc or Korgan spring to mind) that have an intelligence of around 9, and they don't seem to have trouble speaking. Come to think of it, if 10 is average, then 9 can't be the cutoff for having difficulty in speaking. You jump from average to speach impaired in 2 points? I don't think so.

 

@ Foradasthar, and whoever else still cares at this point

What heat? Sorry I didn't use enough smilies, but you'll notice I didn't use a lot of exclamation points, angry emoticons, post in all caps, etc. You seem to be reading something into my post for the sake of bashing people who don't hold your particular point of view. You might have noticed that I spoke in general terms, and did not attempt to point my finger at anyone in particular and say, "Foul powergamer, hang thy head in SHAME!" I also made a point out of saying that people can play the game however they want, they paid for it, etc.

All I'm asking for is a little intellectual honesty. Granted, it's not required by law, and there's plenty of latitude in moral relativism to render the point moot: "Oh, what is truth, man...?" But I do have a pet peeve about, say, people who post at length about all of their success at soloing the game when it seems they had to use cheats and/or cheese to do it, etc. I guess it's because I've had plenty of success at the game just playing it straight, and I'm pretty bad!

Maybe it's just hard for me to believe that there are people out there whose gaming skills are even more lackluster than mine. Or maybe it's all the memories of some of the PnP players I knew in high school who were part of that tiny minority that actually did all of the stuff outsiders are thinking of when they accuse us of being devil worshippers.

In any event, it's not how other people play that gets me riled so much as it is their lack of intellectual honesty about it. You should see how upset I get when I watch a news talk show on cable!

Maybe i'm just not getting the joke sometimes, but some people really do make me wonder if they are using their "powergaming" as a way of compensating for their feeling of powerlessness in their real lives. (Hey, whoever created that Imoen romance mod has some real, deep psychological and moral issues to resolve.)

Lastly -- and this is my fault for not making the point more than once -- I was giving My Humble Opinion, not the decalogue. I was not trying to tell people who consider themselves powergamers -- and I can't deny that some of my games have met some of the definitions that others have given -- how they were defined. I was instead trying to delineate the somewhat narrower way in which I would lable someone a "powergamer." So maybe I just should have left the more popular definition alone then.

No offense, people, so please try not to invent any just so you can take some, that's all I ask.