What makes the best tank, in your opinion?

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I never hit a dragon enough to find out. Some of the spells they cast are scripted so the casting would happen even if you disrupt their spells. And Dragons are prone to changing tactics. They wouldn't waste their time casting spells. They'd switch to breath weapons, wing buffets, and physical claw/bite attacks.

 

I been reading this post for a while now and finally have to express what I feel is tank and which class fullfills that role.

First off a tank is a character that requires NO MAGICAL enhancing spells. This character can go blow to blow with their opponent and require little or no assistance. The tank can aborb and dishout the damage. He however does not buff himself because he doesn't need that magical protection. Magical equipment only enhances this characters effectness. As he advances he only become more resliant to damage and is able to dish more damage out. The reason why a tank does not use magic is because his job is to soak up a majority of the attacks so his commrades can use thier magic or range weapons to take some of the enemies down, etc...

Now that you know what a tank is for me; the best tank in the game would be a Half Orc Barbarian. This character, if you were able to use him through BG1, would be unstoppable. He would have regenearation, a high Strength score, and a decent dexterity to boot. Add in the higher HP, rage, and immunities and this character only get stronger as he advances. Equipment only enhances his usefulness but he could still be the tank if he only had standard, non-magical, equipment.

As for the multi-class character they aren't tanks. They are not made to aborb the damage the way a barbarian does. Yes they have magical to help aborb the damage, but what will happen once the magical effects wear off? The barbarian would still be standing there aborbing blows while the multi-class character would have to go hide to rebuff themselves up. Multi-class character are semi tanks because of their magic, but once they don't have any spells they become much weaker than a stand alone tank.

 

@Abdel
A F/M never has to hide to rebuff, they cast when battle starts and recast before they wear off. In a tight spot they might keep a few spells in triggers and contingencies to ensure they are never left completly vunerable.

A Fighter-Mage can wear any of the equipment a Barb does so can have equal if not superior ac/hp/regen/resistances.

Barbarian Rage stops some of the more annoying spells in the game but it doesn't stop the worst (imprisonment) or the monster attacks that carry spell effects.

Alot of people seem to be up in arms against constantly recasting spells in battle, but you have to remember that Barbarian rage only lasts 30 seconds. If your enemies aren't dead by then and there attacking with a spell/attack that rage protects against you'll end up recasting.

30 seconds, thats only 1 round more than pfmw and at least 5 less than Spell Immunity. Both i would consider to be far more effective than rage. Throw in blur/mirror image/stoneskins to avoid/absorb damage or if youre bored Tenser's Transformation for double hp.

I don't understand why everyone is so in love with 20% damage resistance. At the end of the day he's still as reliant on certain equipment as the F/M and has to cast in the heat of battle.

...round and round we go.

 

@Pseudospawn

Yeah, at first that was exactly what I thought about ws's. Who cares if they miscast magic when they're dead in three hits. But what makes this class infinitely useful is that in situations where the mage has stoneskin, even though your hits don't do damage, the miscast effect still applies. What this means in combat is that within a round or so, you can completely disable a mage from doing anything (except scripted spells)

 

@Psuedo Spawn.

I'm sorry but even wearing the same equipment the F/M cannot get superior HP, AC, or Resistances. The Regeneration is questionable.

The Barbarians HP is vastly superior to anything else. Specially if you could control the dice rolls from level 1. The F/M has it's hitpoints reduced because of being a multiclass and it doesn't even get starting access to the extra HP that the barbarian does. Spells like Tensors are temporary and stop your spell casting. Not to mention that there are ways to have them cast on a Barbarian instead so they don't reach a superiority through that.

Thanks to equipment and such in the game spells like Mirror image and Stone skin can be put on the barbarian. So these don't help with AC against the Barbarians AC. The F/M is also a bit hampered in certain pieces of equipment either to bolster their spell casting or to be able to cast spells in general since BG2 has denied the power to equip armor in combat for when you run out of spells. So the Barbarian ultimately can get a 2 better AC than the F/M just in equipment alone. Even more so if your going for things like the Robe of Vecna for improved spell casting.

Through equipment and such Any of the spell resistances can be matched if not bettered. But most of that is resistance to spells. Not physical damage. Equipment that helps against physical damage actually takes away from equipment slots that you need to help with the elemental, magical resistance or AC. And i believe that most of the resistance spells can be cast on other party members but I could be wrong. I don't use them often.

The Barbarian can have all three at the same time. Spell and Physical resistance gathered on one character. Greater HP than the F/M and comparable if not superior AC.

Note: Anybody that wants to See a Barbarian with Tensors Transformation on it just make yourself a wild mage to go with the barbarian. At higher level when you cast the spell there is a wild surge that you will get more and more often that will turn Tensors into a group spell. It will affect all of your characters. It give Sarevok something like 400 Hitpoints. I'm sure that Barbarian can crack that since from my playing with rolling them up Barbarians start at roughly 90hp on Average just at the beginning of BG2 which puts it almost halfway to the requisite 200hp needed for Tensors to double before the game even starts.

 

If you're after a tank I know my favorite easily. Barbarian equipped with Kouraisan's katana, Axe of Unyeilding +5, Ring of Regeneration, and Ring of Gaxx. Everything else is more or less optional. He regenerates so quickly its unrivaled by all but the cheesiest monsters (specifically Firegiants). Only boss fights really qualify as challenging for him. BTW how many of you would think that its possible for me to solo through tactics and ascension with a barbarian? I've never soloed before even unmodded and after being inspired by thetruth sagas I want to give it a try.

 

Unless you are talking about cheating or dual classing (which isn't even possible without cheating....uh....I mean modding)...no, there aren't. A Barbarian will never be able to cast Tensers Transformation, Stoneskin (with more than 2 layers), or PFMW. At any rate, dual classing him causes him to lose his fighter HLA's, so a multiclass F/M is still better in my opinion.

 

Who was that directed towards Drew?

 

@dmc
...those are exactly the item he was talking about

@starwalker
my point was that they will be roughly the same as they can wear the same equipment, but this can be massively boosted by spells. So the F/M would end up with more ac/hp/resistances/saving throws.

2 layers of stoneskin & 1 mirror image for a short time per day does not compare to the longer lasting, better protecting mage spells.

 

the stoneskin can be cast from a pair of boots in TOB

 

The Barbarian doesn't have to cast Tensors to be affected by it. The Wild Mage is seriously powerful because of it's area affect wild surge. In fact I'm betting I could probably get stone skin or Mirror image to affect the whole group at the Wild Mages casting very easily.

That's just one of the vastly powerful and tricky things that wild mages are capable of.

 

So Barbarians are better because if you happen to have a high-level Wild Mage in the party you can cast the same spells that a F/M could cast themselves without nearly the chance?

Reasonable logic to me.

 

While I think a fighter/mage would probably be the most effective tank in the end, I think it sort of defeats his purpose. I mean, why waste all those spell slots with protection spells when you could be using offensive spells. Its like pulling out a gun and then pistol whipping someone with rather than shooting.

 

Try to see it more like the spells adding to the fighter abilities. Otherwise the fighter part would be wasted.

 

What I understand from the 'tank'?

The 'tank' should be the most durable person who delays the enemies and attracts their attention, while fragile spell casters are busy chanting. This person should be very durable, so he should:

-have decent AC (no matter what you say, a good AC is always nice to have)
-have decent saving throws
-have decent HP, and resistances
-should be able to absorb damage harmlessly
-should be able to regenerate and/or heal himself
-should be immune to most dangerous things, like charm, confusion, hold, level drain etc.

He does not need to be offensively heavy hitter. IMHO, ofcourse.

So all in all I still think that Jaheira is the best tank, at least in my games. With best equipment, and buffs, she has -15 or better AC, (which means Demogorgon needs a natural 10 or better to hit her), ironskins, various protection spells, best resistant gear, druidic resistances, serious summoning spells which further help her role of distracting, elemental lords, creeping dooms, nature's beauty, these spells kick a lot of butt; plus she can heal herself quickly too!

With Harper pin, she becomes immune to lightning and with its special +5 bonus to save vs spells, she basically becomes immune to most spells in the highest levels, when all her saves are below zero.

She is one hard nut to crack, and she never seems to die when she reachs her maximum. Heck even my PC whom I protect at all costs may die in my seriously modded game but good old Jaheira just seems to keep going. I love her durability. I can always trust her in a hard battle.

 

How about a Monk with the Oversight HLA's, they have the possibility to tank aswell as any other class.

With a few magic resistance items and the good path for selfishness in hell trial they can max magic resistance easily which can be 'flipped' to give complete physical resistance. Lunar Stance would protect against the nastier spells, while Tiger Strike & Dragon Fist ensure they can hit anyone and deal an impressive amount of damage.

The loss of GWW or not being haste-able isn't too much of a hit since they constantly gain an extra half-attack/per round every 3 levels.

[ June 13, 2006, 17:40: Message edited by: Pseudospawn ]

 

Incorrect. Demogorgon's adjusted THAC0 is in the -20's; he'd hit her every time.

 

Any Fighter can get a -15 AC. In fact I've played games where I've had two characters hit this number.

A fighter can get lower than the -15 in fact. to -18 I believe if you focus everything just into one characters AC.

 

Actually, only the MR added by monk levels gets "flipped". On the other hand, 78% resistance to physical damage (plus any other physical resistance gained from items or Hell Trial bonuses, etc) is still nothing to sneeze at.