Which kind of fraud is worst

Sir Rechet · Aug 5, 2010

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I agree on the Social security fraud / tax evasion comments, although I voted for "Cheating your neighbor". Sure, the two first ones are bound to cause more total damage to the society, but there's something extra vile in using the "but (s)he's my neighbor, (s)he COULDN'T possibly..." trust still endowed to people in our immediate vicinity.

Chandos the Red · Aug 5, 2010

I could not vote because some types of "fraud" were missing:

Insurance fraud, fraud committed by insurance companies: People pay years and when they make a claim insurance companies try to figure a way to screw policy holders out of their claims: An example:

Reuters reported on Thursday that WellPoint, the largest U.S. health insurer by enrollment, was using a computer algorithm that automatically targeted patients recently diagnosed with breast cancer, among other conditions.

The software triggered an immediate fraud investigation by the company as it searched for excuses to drop coverage, according to government regulators and investigators.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63M2YM20100423

That, IMO, is the worst kind of fraud. Or the kind of institutional fraud we saw with Goldman - selling investments and then betting against those investments:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The government on Friday accused Wall Street's most powerful firm of fraud, saying Goldman Sachs & Co. sold mortgage investments without telling the buyers that the securities were crafted with input from a client who was betting on them to fail.

And fail they did. The securities cost investors close to $1 billion while helping Goldman client Paulson & Co., a hedge fund, capitalize on the housing bust. The Goldman executive accused of shepherding the deal allegedly boasted about the "exotic trades" he created "without necessarily understanding all of the implications of those monstrosities!!!"
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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/SEC-accuses-Goldman-Sachs-of-apf-1523020722.html?x=0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/16/goldman-sachs-fraud-expla_n_540938.html

Here's a pretty good article on insurance fraud:

But the day it ran, my in-basket overflowed with emails from readers telling me the same thing had happened to them or someone they knew. They all said their insurers had accused them of lying on their applications after they incurred significant medical bills. Unlike Raudel and his wife, these were all native English speakers. So it was clear that the problem was more than a language barrier.

To gain perspective, I called several lawyers who specialize in suing health insurers on behalf of policyholders. But I only found two — one of them Raudel’s lawyer — who knew much about retroactive cancellations. The other attorney, William Shernoff, was preparing to file a whole batch of rescission complaints against Blue Cross. The suits, eventually filed in courthouses around Southern California, accused the company of gaming its limited legal power to rescind by dropping people with high medical bills to save itself money.

Blue Cross steadfastly denied any wrongdoing and continues to do so. It says it follows the law and only drops people who omitted information from applications that would have caused coverage to be declined in the first place.

Every story I wrote led to more e-mails from readers. Soon, I discovered a raft of rescission suits around the state against all the major insurers — not just Blue Cross, but also Kaiser, Blue Shield and Health Net. Although rescissions had been going on for years, the problem had not surfaced because insurers had often won early dismissal of lawsuits, or quietly settled them. There had never been a trial.

The regulatory profile also was low. A few hundred consumers had complained, but regulators had almost always dismissed their grievances in favor of the insurers.

But that all began to change as the details of the insurers’ rescission practices emerged.
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http://www.reportingonhealth.org/re...escissions-how-one-story-led-insurance-reform

mordea · Aug 5, 2010

Some of you guys must have unusually nice neighbours.

Blackthorne TA · Aug 6, 2010

I'll be surprised if Goldman gets convicted of fraud. They're basically middlemen that provide instruments that their clients ask for.

Chandos the Red · Aug 6, 2010

I'll be surprised if Goldman gets convicted of fraud. They're basically middlemen that provide instruments that their clients ask for.
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Be surprised.

Goldman acknowledges that the marketing materials for the ABACUS 2007-AC1 transaction contained incomplete information. In particular, it was a mistake for the Goldman marketing materials to state that the reference portfolio was "selected by" ACA Management LLC without disclosing the role of Paulson & Co. Inc. in the portfolio selection process and that Paulson's economic interests were adverse to CDO investors. Goldman regrets that the marketing materials did not contain that disclosure.

Read more: http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time...s-settles-with-sec-stock-soars/#ixzz0vmIAoVDb
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It's hard not to see this as a good day for Goldman, which will pay the SEC far less than many experts had imagined. When I first reported on this, the day Goldman was charged, I noted that potential damages, which the SEC said would include injunctive relief, disgorgement of profits, prejudgment interest, and financial penalties, could easily exceed $1 billion because that is the amount investors reportedly lost on the CDO security that was created and marketed by Goldman Sachs. The fact that the settlement came down to a mea culpa plus $550 million—with just $250 million going to the investors—saves a bit of face for the SEC but more importantly lets Goldman's partners wipe beads of sweat off their brow. That's not because they saved a few bucks on the settlement, but because they are now spared what could have been an exhaustive discovery process if this case had headed to trial.

Read more: http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time...s-settles-with-sec-stock-soars/#ixzz0vmGsiWsY
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Blackthorne TA · Aug 6, 2010

Ah. So no fraud conviction. I will not be surprised it seems.

Chandos the Red · Aug 6, 2010

Ah. So no fraud conviction. I will not be surprised it seems.
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Sure, if the thieves pony-up and plea-bargain for bad "investements" they created and marketed, why bother with a trial? "Big Changes" at Goldman though:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-july-29-2010/goldman-s----

coineineagh · Aug 7, 2010

Too bad fraudulent banking & investment practices isn't on the list. The payment of outrageous bonuses isn't even technically fraud, but it's more offensive than all the rest.
I went for social security fraud, because every case of system abuse just gives right-wingers more ammunition to justify cutting back on expenses for the social safety net. It usually leads to even more complicated paperwork, as 8people can probably testify to.

8people · Aug 7, 2010

I'm onto my third form in two weeks!

Also got a form to fill in about child support, but I'm guessing that's a mistake on their part

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Which kind of fraud is worst

Which kind of fraud do you think is worst?

Tax evasion

Moonlight work

Insurance fraud

Social security fraud

Shoplifting

Cheating in public transportation

Cheating your neighbour in a deal

Internet piracy

Cheating on an exam

Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

mordea Banned

Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran