With what party did you first finish IWD2 ?

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I don't remember my very first time but it must've been the good ol' warriorish, warriorish, warriorish, rogue, cleric, wizardish.

I've made countless parties since then, sometimes I just kill my whole pary in the middle of the game to create another from the ashes. If Icewind Dale II was just creating characters again and again ang again without ever playing them I'm sure I would still play it.

I started a new game this week though, no spellcaster no healer four man party on HoF, quite hard (The ice/fire hardened troll in the goblin fortress were insanely difficult to kill...) but I think I'm gonna make it (Well maybe not the final encounter).

[ April 02, 2006, 23:46: Message edited by: Dr Chocapic ]

 

Let me think here. I had had a bit of experience with 3E PnP, so I guess I had a headstart over many folks when it came to understanding party dynamics. However I did NOT have much experience with the differences between low and high level parties (though I've come to realize that IWDII's designed to make spellcasters more powerful at higher levels than anything else, even tho 3E isn't necesarilly like that). Also, I get the impression that most folks only reached level 16 when they went through Normal mode. Odd. I hit 17, tho admittedly only JUST barely. I believe my party was:

Human Bard (party's primary talker and a backup healer)
Aasimar Fig (4)/Pal (15)
Shield Dwarf Cleric (17) (Forget which god... probably Tempus)
Human Druid (17) (intended to use a lot of Shapeshifting, until I reazlied how badly BIS had nerfed that ability. Become a back-up healer, back-up artillery, back-up melee-er
Tiefling Rog (1)/Wiz (16)
Aasimar Sorceror (16)

Good times. Not the best party, but not too bad either. Wouldn't use the Druid again, at least not in that way. Druids strengths in 3E are really not representated well in IWDII, IMHO.

Also, I'd heard rumor about a Holy Avenger and having been a BGII player, I was rather pissed when my Fig/Pal who was decked out to whoop some butt with a 2-HS got a LS instead.

 

Shapeshifting is great (well maybe not that great but I like it a LOT), you just gotta specialize your character to do it, in my current HoF party of four people my shapeshifter is the second best killer before my F/M/T and my Fighter/Sorcerer.

 

Human Paladin/Fighter
Half-Orc Barbarian/Battleguard of Tempest
Tiefling Monk
Human Rogue/Ranger
Human Wizard
Elf Sorcerer

 

dwarven fighter
2 half-orc barbarians
dwarven morninglord cleric
tiefling thief
drow wizard

through standard and HoF campaigns

 

I finished the game with 3 fighters, a cleric of... something, mage and a thief. They were all human, no multi-classes, and their stats were excruciatingly horrible. No regard whatsoever for class. As an example, my mage sometimes got a + to Cha, just because I simply didn´t like a red ability score, not because she actually needed it... Newbie heaven... I mean, I did whatever I cared about with my characters´ skills, and I didn´t care less if they had any use for it.
Strangely enough, I´ve never finished the game as quickly as I did that first time. 62 days in game time. Ever since I´ve always ended up with 150+ days worth of game time with any other party. Isair and Madae were a piece of cake that first time. Like Saemon Havarian says: "GET´EM!!!" Now, if I use a walkthrough with *drumroll* "The Perfect Party" I take a pretty decent beating. Unfiortunately, my harddrive got... well, it sort of died, before I went on to HoF. I want my first party back. *sniff*

 

Was annoyed at the parties I generated because I couldn't stop myself powergaming, so I used the "Annals of Halgren" pregenerated party:

Dwarf Fighter
Human Ranger / Fighter / Barbarian (don't remember the mix)
Dwarf Cleric of Tempus
Tiefling Monk
Half-Elf Rogue 3 / Wizard
Human Sorcerer

 

Just out of curiosity, are you using the Weimer shapeshifting mod? If so, I can see why you'd have a powerful shapeshifter. And I'm with you, I love shapeshifting, which is why my intention had been to do it. However, in IWDII it's just whack. The vast majority of the time a Druid is more powerful with a good weapon and armor, than in their shapeshifted form. It just wasn't useful for me.
The mod that changes it goes to the other extreme tho. Oh well.

 

My druid was one of the most useful characters.
She won all battle square battles in polar or dire bear form.

 

Nope, this mod is ridiculously (does that word even exist ?) overpowered, that's too bad though being able to shapeshift into Treant-form is one of this mod great ideas, but being able to solo HoF with a druid is not.

I'm using regular shapeshifting (panther form mostly) but my character stats, multiclasses and stuff is totally devoted to shapeshifting.

Fact is that if you want your druid to fight with a good weapon and armor he'll need strength, dexterity and constitution where my panther shifter doesn't, so I can go with ridiculously (same question ) high wisdom, intelligence and charisma and still shred people in close combat.

Of course if you expect your druid to be an all powerfull destroyer of worlds you'll be disapointed.

[ April 06, 2006, 19:30: Message edited by: Dr Chocapic ]

 

Glad to hear we agree on that one. And I have no idea if that's actually a word!

While I do see your point here, I still seem to remember my Druid being better in natural form. It's been a while, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a shapeshifted Druid lose spellcasting abilities? There's a mark against shapeshifting. Still, to each his own. If you've been able to make it work, that's great. Personally, I just don't think it's implemented well in the game.

Question tho, who the heck cares about CHA for a Druid?! I would never use a Druid as my talker... as he only gets Diplomacy as a class skill. And frankly, INT isn't much more important. At least, in the parties I play. Druids only have 5 Class Skills. Animal Empathy (which admittedly uses CHA for it's modifier... which becomes relatively insignificant as the game goes on) is a very mediocre skill at best. There are times when it's noce to have, but all in all, you can definitely go without it. Concentration. ALWAYS a good skill for a caster. There's one the Druid should have. Then there's Diplomacy... not necessary (see above). Spellcraft? Yeah, there's going to be a Wizard, or at least a Cleric or Sorc to handle this one. And finally Wilderness Lore. Another useful one, until you've memorized the Fell Wood. But a Barb or Ranger can get that taken care of anyways. So, point is, who really cares about CHA or INT for your Druid? Beef up the WIS as high as you can, and you've still got points to make your three physical stats (STR, DEX, CON) at least decent.

Course, a lot of what I just said comes down to individual play style. Maybe you like your Druid to be a Diplomatic Panther.

Either way, I'm glad 'someone' has been able to make a Shapeshifting Druid that holds it's own. I sure can't.

 

Int is important for druids. You need 1 skill point/level for concentration and a second one for building spellcraft up to 10. Call lightning and static charge are even more deadly with the scion of storms feat. So you need either a human or 10 int.
Wilderness lore is useless since you just can repeat the tracking process until you succeed if you have some wisdom.

 

Good point kmonster. However, I don't really think I'd say needing to leave your INT at 10 makes it important. I don't really believe in Min/Maxing, so when I say INT isn't important, I'm not saying you should lower it to 3 or anything.

Dr. Chocapic talked about raising the INT to "ridiculously" high levels, and I was just saying, "What's the point?" It doesn't help any saving throws like DEX, CON & WIS. All INT does is help Wizards cast more, and higher level, spells (not relevant to this discussion), increase skill points (not necessary here) and help a few skills (none of which are important here, 'cept Spellcraft, which will be at the required 10 after 7 levels even without an INT bonus).

So, I see your point, but I think putting valuable ability points into INT on a Druid is a waste. Leave it at 10 and you're gravy.

 

Since putting them into STR,CON or DEX is even more of a waste with my druid being a shapeshifter and that wisdom is quite quickly maxed out I got to put these points somewhere.

Plus you may think that INT is useless for a druid, I do not, Panther are supposed to be stealthy animals so why not put some points into hide and such, oh I got so much extra points I can take Disable Device, Open Lock, Search, Move Silently... I don't even need a rogue (If you take rogue levels you can backstab in panther form and even use arterial strike or harmstring)... Man that panther is quite the genius.

But of course those "wasted" points that I put into CHA and INT come to their best use when I multicass some more.

Because you know what beats a Backstabing Shredding Stealthy Barbarian Enraged (Yay 29 STR)Dire Panther with the BAB of a warrior ? The same Dire Panther with Mirror Image / Stone Skin / Whatever you want on, of course a warrior/sorcerer can do the same but he'll have to gimp his fighting stats to get good casting ones.

Plus the Dire Panther is faster than a regular character and since shapeshifting dispells snares/roots (cool heh ?) you can cast Iron body and GO GO FAST INDESTRUCTIBLE PANTHER !

But yeah I guess shapeshifting sucks.

 

Wow. Calm down there killer. I'm just giving my opinion on why I think shapeshifting wasn't implemented well. It seems like you're working a little too hard to MAKE it useful. Just an opinion tho. No need to get defensive. I said before and I'll say again, I really am glad someone has been able to make the unmodded shapeshifting actually useful. Good show.

 

Shapeshifting may be a bit weak but I usually consider it as a bonus to a quite good class. For a physically weak druid the shapeshifting isn't bad. For a powergamed druid it's not as useful but still fun to have. It's fun to summon some animals and then become one yourself and make the enemies being killed by some bears of whatever.
Even without the shapeshifting the 3ed druid is almost as powerful as the cleric. If shapeshifting would have been more effective I think druids would be overpowered.
It could maybe be balanced for a shapeshifting druid if they would need int or spend some skills or feats to become good shapeshifters.