World Trade Center

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Latest news: A borrowed car is found. In it, there where istruction how to fly a plane, in Arabian language. FBI and CIA also have clues that lead to Florida. Also, new information also poins at the involvement of Bin Laden.

 

We've had just about 24 hours to think about yesterday's events and my thinking still isn't clear. Part of me wanted to start bombing in Palastine where the people were dancing in the streets, and keep moving east until someone confessed. (I'm not suggesting that, just giving an honest reaction).


I do have a few good friends who are Suni Muslim and they respect both Christians & Americans. They even view Christians as brothers, "People of the book".

For now, all I can say is; Pray; Give Blood & Clothes; and be vigilent.

Chances are, someone reading this thread knows someone who died or was injured in the catastrophy. If so, my prayers are with you, along with our Presidents vow that you will see justice. Persevere

 

This could offend people here, but islam has to be the most intollerant religion in the world. I only mention the Taliban shooting down the large Buddha stone statues. They very often behave like christians did hundreds of years ago, when we also stoned people who refused to accept our believes.

 

Just to put a word in here. It is a great shame that even the greatest of the prayers, the strongest of love, the highest of will, cannot bring someone back. But I just have a strong belif to myself that, when someone dies, they are ressurected as another form. life cant just stop altogether in my mind, it must take another form. either that or they are reconed. I think that thinking the way I do can take a load of thinking of the dead. so just think, when a loved one dies, he or she (or it) could be the next thing you see, or meet, or talk to. that helps me quite a lot.

 

Let's hope that there won't be a third world war, but from what I have heared the NATO is supporting America if they are going into armed conflict, so this could end up in a even bigger mess then it already is.

 

I don't hope this is about freakin' religion.
After all the Koran and Bible are originally based on the same book.
I bet Mohammed and Jesus are rotating in their graves right now.
Why the hell can't people just get along with each other?! After thousands of years of endless war the human race has learned absolutely NOTHING.

 

"Both Bible and Koran based on same book?"

The Bible is based on no book.

"Jesus rolling in his grave"

Jesus isn't in any grave, he is seated at the right hand of God in Heaven after defeating death. You may think this is a bunch of mumbo jumbo but I do not. And I would appreciate that if you don't have anything proper to say about religion that you don't say it all.

Just look at it from this view: it's one thing that people think your religion is a bunch of mumbo jumbo, and it's most definately another when they claim false things about it.

 

Latest news: Police is searching some buildings.. Some arrests... Confirmed that the names of the 12 High-Jackers are known now. Black box of the Plane that crashed down in Pennsylvania has been found.

I'm glad to know that Jesus is not in a Grave but above. There are many differences between bible and Koran and Bible does NOT support Jihadm the muslim-law that says you should make war and kill everyone that don't want to believe in Allah. All christianity judged the action and would never support cruel deeds like this against anyone that lives in our world.

A little bit off topic, when many people want to discuss this, we'd better make a new topic for it... let this be a topic to be silent, to think about what happened, to support each other and especially our American friends here.

 

Mohamed has a tomb to roll over in. Jesus rolling over in his grave? errr.... he doesn't have one. Its an empty tomb. (Long story for another thread)

I do believe that this is about religion though. What other force is powerful enough to get people to sacrifice their lives? If each terrorist crew had 4 people, that is at least 16 people committed to suicide -- all for what cause?

According to their beliefs, if these people were Islamic, they would have just earned a ranking in Paradise.

Politics isn't powerful enought to motivate people to do that!

 

All right, a few words here.

I am an American, I live in New York, I used to live on Long Island. That's just so what I have to say will be understood.

Muslims did not do this. That's like saying that all African people have a lower IQ, or that Catholics all have sheep as sexual partners. Several PEOPLE did this, regardless of their religion or nationality.

I think that these events should end in reprisal, but not at the cost of nuclear holocaust. It would be cutting off America's own head if we turned around and killed Palestinian civilians, or Afganistan civilians, or ANY kind of civilians simply on principle. I believe that the US military should strike back IF we find out who did this. A surgical strike should be used, not a carpet bombing.

Oh, and Arkados? If the Nazis had won WWII, Hitler may not have been hailed as a national Saint. There were attempts by his own military to kill him, and his own generals thought that he was insane.

[This message has been edited by Sapiryl (edited September 12, 2001).]

 

As said in earlier posts, I do not blame Muslims in general. I do believe that the Sheite group tends in this direction. Its not racist, its history.

Yesterday a Palastinian group published a paper talking about suicide bombers as national heroes. Its a mind-set that Westerns can rarely relate to.

Now, maybe there are political motivations strong enough to lead people toward these actions. I just could never guess what they were.

[This message has been edited by Mathetais (edited September 12, 2001).]

 

My thoughts about this tragedy:


- First, the entire world has joined Amercan people in their tragedy...
- Second, a few (not even a hundred palestinians) celebrate this event, but I'm pretty sure the people if this country feel sorry and condemning this actions.
-Third, since it happened, i've been wondering how come 100's of persons on the airplanes can not stop a few guys armed with knives (not even guns)... i mean if they are taken hostages but they could easily recorver the planes, perhaps there will be losses but those planes will be recovered easily...
-For the last, how come a contry can have so many enemies, how come all terrorist groups had USA as a common enemy, many of you guys had said that this should not happen, no matter how much someone cuold hate a country or the people there, but i ask, what American government has done to make people around the world hate that country enough to give their own lives and commit that atrocity...

Anyway, the world must go on...

 

I'm in DC. Yesterday was easily the most frightening and eerie day I've ever had.

Then I go home and see pictures of Palestinians celebrating the deaths of thousands of innocent people.

I've tried to sit the fence on the Jewish vs. Muslim conflict. No more. Fuck the Palestinians. I just ordered a Palestinian flag via priority mail. I'm going to desecrate it on camera. I've never done anything even remotely like this.

Even China and Libya have expressed their sorrow over this. Russia has. All of Europe. Israel. But Iraq claims that we deserve it. Bastard Bin Laden says that we deserve it. Arafat has the political savvy to LIGHTLY condemn the attacks while his people are celebrating in the streets.

Our attorney general is on the radio live. There are tons of evidence pointing to bin Laden. I hope by the end of this Afghanistan glows at night. Turn it into a waste land. These people RELY on the fact that America tries not to harm civilians. Gen. Schwarzkopf said it best last night, "In the Gulf War, we exposed our troops to further danger in an effort not to harm civilians. But these bastards are deliberately targetting civilians. And that is the difference between us and them."

So screw those Muslim radicals. Screw working for peace. Screw inviting those assholes to Camp David, to Dayton, to endless peace attempts. Let's play the game at their level for a while. Use all available force and damn the consequences.

 

NO! War in the Middle East is the worst option! If we do what some in our government suggested (if rather obliquely) and punish the "harboring countries" militarily there is a rather strong likelihood that we will set in motion the third world war. With the current tensions in the Middle East, it's too volatile a situation. Granted, we want some justice; I don't think war is the method of obtaining it.

I was extremely upset when I heard of the attack; my first reaction was "Kill the freaking Arabs!" Then sense took over, and I realized that when the enemy takes on a human face instead of being a vague entity, it's a little different.

I'm a Christian, and I would find it hard to take a human life for any cause. I'm also a patriot and bound to defend my country. If they called me to go to war, I would go -- as a medical aide or a communications tech or something like that, where I wouldn't be forced to kill someone. I think it's important to realize that noone is completely evil at heart. In some strange, twisted way, they are often trying to do what they think is right.

To me, this is a sudden grim reminder that the end of the world isn't that far off. As I said before, I'm a Christian, and I believe Biblical prophecy. I'm shaken as I realize that before I know it, some neurotic group could use nuclear weaponry, starting off a chain reaction of reprisals that would tear the entire world apart. As I look at what I've done with my life, I'm dissatisfied. I've spent too much time on entertainment and not nearly enough helping people. God help me to be more selfless and make use of every opportunity given me to reach out to someone in need. As eveningdrive said, it's time I really lived what I preach.

 

Capstone;

I've struggled with the same issues. I actually have contientous objector status and if war broke out would serve as a chaplain or behind the lines. Not out of cowardess, out of my principle that I cannot take a life.

However, there is a difference in the New Testament between personal and national ethics. We are not to set up a Theocracy, we are to be Christian individuals within our system. John Calvin pointed out that the Second Use of the Law (Between convicting us of our sin & teaching us how to live) is to give the power of the Sword ro Government.

As an individual, I cannot go and kill a terrorist for revenge. As a nation, America can and should punish acts of terrorism, even when bloodshed is the result. It gets kinda of Old Testament in application, but it works.

I hate violence, and despite my "fantasy persona" I am a very mild person. However, I need a strong government to protect my family. I thank God for America, a country where I can freely believe in and worship Jesus. I also thank God that America has the military might to deter more of these attacks so that I can walk the streets of my city without fear of attack.

 

Do you have some personality quarrels Shralp? Of all Avatartexts Imaginable you chose:

I just think you need a day or two more, to clear your mind. I agree with Capstone and Math.

 

I just want to say that my heart goes out for all people who died yesterday in these acts of terrorism...even to the suicidal terrorists themselves. How can I say this? Well I may be an American, but I'm also a christain. So I believe in the "love your enemies" idea. Unfortunately, America will strike back, to what extent remains unknown. Whether it starts a war or not, it will not be forgotten...by any side.

I've been surfing other boards and talking to people and many Americans are like "kill the **blah blah insert here**!!!!" Don't think we are all like that. Yes I am hurt that my country was attacked but I do not want us to do anything rash. I've also heard a lot that America is all about money. It's not; not everyone in America is greedy.

Somebody asked why the journalists where there so easy as if it was planned, that's ludicrous. For one thing it's New York city for cryin' outloud.

Well, in any case this is big, don't try to size it down in your minds. The WTC towers leveled and the Pentagon (a symbol of our nation's defense) hit is a big deal. Much more of a big deal than back in '93 when a bomb went off at the WTC. And who knows where the fourth plane would have hit if it had reached it's target and not some field in western Pennsylvania.

Some good news is that rescue crews were able to find some people and pull them out of the rubble.

 

Mat, I agree. That is why I would serve if asked, thus tacitly supporting America's war effort.

In this case, I don't think a national reprisal is in order though. While diplomatic sanctions would be appropriate for harboring countries, I think any capital action should be through tribunal and strictly reserved for those who actually launched the attack.

 

An observation:

I'm amazed at how many planes are normally in the air...You never realize it until there are none.

 

i've been listening to the radio a lot and here's the point of view from many palestinians:
i not care. america come to our country and take away our way of life. america kill our people. we suffer all the time because of america. we live our life, we no care about america, we no condem what america does in own country. but america come and kill our people. we are sorry for people who died. our people have died also. but i not care about america.

by the way, america did use depleted uranium shells during the gulf war. where is the justice in that? do you know how many mutated babies there are in iraq? im not saying america shouldnt be angry. im saying i emphatise with the anger in americans, but i also emphatise with the anger in many other countries.