World Trade Center

Remove all ads!

I am still too stunned to analyse or even think about the situation objectively (if that is at all possible).

But so far I know this: I am absolutely shocked and still cannot quite believe what I saw. How terrible!
I also makes me utterly sick (!) to see several thousands Palestinians celebrating in East Jerusalem and in the West Jordan Bank. They celebrated all night by the way.
Being one of the moderate Arabian nations even the so called average Egyptian in the streets of Cairo seemed to be quite satisfied calling theses terror attacks "acts of justice" etc. (quite opposite to the governmental statement of Husni Mubarack). This also seems to speak for itself. Utterly sick. Understanding or accepting these people's point of view is for me more difficult than ever before.


Matthias

 

well i guess it is time to put in my two cents worth. I agree it is a horrific tragedy. However i hear alot of talk of revenge, and as president bush said "Make no mistake, the United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts."

I am starting to think that this is a small group of radicalists that has pulled this off. Bombing innocents in their country of origin my make you feel better but does it not lower you to their level? There are alot of innocent people in these countries we are talking about. They are oppresed and most likely have nothing to do with these horrible acts. Killing these men is letting them off easy!

Let them rot in jail in solitary for the rest of their miserable lives. Death is a quick and easy ending for these pathetic excuses for men. Do we really need another war?? Do you know the damage another war will do to the human race?

Not only will hundreds of innocents die, but the damage to our mother earth itself will be extensive!

I agree justice must be done, but not revenge!

 

First let me say that some of these comments truly touched me and some truly made me disgusted to be part of these boards. But regardless, they are your opinions and if poeple here seem to want to see the point of view of the muslim fundamentalists, well..whatever. Anyway, I'd just like to add my opinion on war with Afganistan as this seems to be the direction at this point as you know they will likely not give up ben Ladden if he his responsible. Now I watched a special on HBO a couple of weeks ago about the attrocities against Afgainstan perpertrated by the Talaban dictatorship there. Women suffor terribly there, and from the public exicutions I've seen at the soccer stadium there, so do many others in that country. An indiscriminate war (all wars are really indiscrimintate so that's a starge discription) in Afganistan would be wrong to the people of the country that don't support the leadership or their way of thinking. But yet the leadership is wrong and someone like ben Ladden should not be living, regardless of whether or not he was responsible. I don't support killing but yet how can such a horrible single act that killed tens of thousands go punished by something as usless as sanctions. All they really do is punish the average citizen and not the dictatorship. I'm truly confused. I don't think we'll ever know who did this terrible act after the fact regardless of what they uncover or who they arrest. Someone has to be arrested after all to ease our fears (the movie Arlington Road has popped into my mind more than once in the past 2 days). I don't know what to think about war. All I know is I feel truly sick and twisted by all this inside. Seeing the images replay over and over and still they seem unbelievable. I am horrified and deeply saddened by all this. My thoughts go to everyone here that may have lost a loved one or friend in this senseless tradgedy. Nothing should ever been seen as a reason or excuse for something like this to happen. There is no sense in any of this; why try to find any......

 

Agreed, Nobleman. I probably just need a little more time to cool off. I'm glad I'm not in charge of the military. So is Afghanistan.

But I have driven by the Pentagon three times. It's right outside my house.

And don't give me that shit about depleted uranium rounds. DP rounds do NOT cause mutated babies. That's just hiysterics people fly into when they hear the word "uranium."

The US did NOTHING comparable to Palestine, Iraq, Iran, or any other country. We gave Israel money. How exactly is that the same as taking thousands of innocent lives? This is NOT the logical outcome of our foreign policy (unless you take for granted that the ragheads are all insane). Yeah, the Israelis have done some horrible things. Just because America gives them support doesn't mean we agree with everything they do. America is just a convenient bogey-man for everyone from totalitarian leaders struggling to hold on to power to insane religious movements that are stifled by common sense TO BLAME FOR THEIR OWN SCREWED UP SYSTEM.

People want to set up this idea that everyone does something wrong... that's there's some way that we can get around saying someone is wrong and someone is right... that they can explain away the evils people do by saying they have a decent reason.

THESE people DO NOT HAVE ANY REASON!

The US is not an evil empire, or we would have conquered a whole Hell of a lot more of the world after the USSR collapsed. We are not bent on the suppression of Islam, or we would have been supporting the Russian government in Chechnya and Afghanistan and rushed to aid the Christians in East Timor.

We did one thing; we supported Israel. And to those racist pricks who think that that makes us evil -- wait until your country is in flames. Then we'll see how evil we are, exactly.

We are a country who'd lost it's will. We sat back on our heels in Vietnam instead of trying to win the war. We let North Korea push us around when we could have wiped them out. We let Kaddafi harbor fugitives. We left Hussein in power. We let Iran off the hook when they took our embassy people hostage.

That ends now. Now we're playing hard ball. This is not going to be tough talk that ends with a whisper. This is the way US policy is going to be. Any politician who resists quick and tough responses to this is going to lose his place in office to someone who is more hawkish. It is unavoidable. If someone like myself, whose father was a conscientious objector in Vietnam and intended to register as one himself if it ever came to the draft, is ready to go sign up for whatever military unit is going to get the assignment to pursue the terrorists -- well, you can bet that there are a LOT of Americans willing to follow me. Army recruitment is ALREADY way up.

This is America. And people are attacking Muslims in the street. That is wholly wrong. But it should show you something about our resolve. The crazies are abusing U.S. Muslims. The normal people are ready to abuse the RIGHT Muslims.

My waiter tonight, Youssef, asked me what nation I thought he was from. I told him Youssef was an Arab name. He said, "I've got to change that." I urged him to be careful.

[This message has been edited by Shralp (edited September 13, 2001).]

 

Alas, what a disaster......
My friend Blackmire just loves playing the devil's advocate, doesn't he? Try not to get offended by him too much. He places little value on human life, a quaint, but easily tolerable quirk of his.
What horror might the victims have went through as they burned, fell or were crushed, I cannot imagine.
For what it's worth, I can only hope that the pain of the victim's loved ones subside swiftly.
Dark days are ahead of us and many, many more people will die in the coming weeks or months.
World, brace thyself.

 

Imagine...
You live in the Arab nation which has been acused of harbouring the terrorists who caused this attrocity. America is not...loved as it is because of past events. You live in an impoverished village and life is hard as it is.

You see American bombers fly overhead and bombs are dropped. Friends and family are dying and burning infront of your eyes and you know that this is the doing of the USA...

Now who is sewing the seeds for the terrorists of the future? The vicious cycle never ends and more innocents die on all 'sides'.


Where is the justice?

 

Criminey! You people get more emotional every day. Sit down and think! My great aunt works in Manhattan and I have yet to have word about her for good or ill.

Come on! How likely is it that the US will carpet bomb an entire country for the sake of killing sixty terrorists? Most likely, that will only happen if an entire country joins in.

(Oh, and Iraq shot down another of our jets the other day).

 

Of course there are NOT uranium mutated babies. Do you think anyone can survive uranium? You do?
Then make yourself a nice amulet of pure uranium. I'll come to your funeral. Very soon.

 

Sheesh, Extremist, I thought you were one of the educated ones around here.

"Survive uranium"? The very phrase is ridiculous. Do you mean could I survive if put in a reactor with enriched uranium? No. Could I survive if some depleted uranium rounds were somewhere within a half mile of me? Yes.

DP rounds have been used in the past. They don't harm the soldiers who carry them and use them, so why exactly do you think they cause certain death to natives?

Oh, and the U.S. hasn't been bombing civilians in the Middle East. The most you can say is that we support Israel, which attacks Palestinian targets without much consideration of civilian casualties. But if you'll remember, the U.S. has been protesting that use of force as well.

 

Don't give me lectures about miles.

Buy yourself an amulet as I said.

 

Sure. Send me some depleted uranium.

I'll send you some remedial science books.

(Do you know anything about radioactivity, alpha and beta decay, etc? Or are you just having a knee-jerk reaction to the word "uranium"?)

 

Shralp and Extremist please!

Here is some data if you want to bring data into the debate:

Depleted Uranium: The Invisible Threat http://www.motherjones.com/total_coverage/kosovo/reality_check/du.html

Natioanal online-Silver Bullet: Depleted Uranium http://www.tv.cbc.ca/national/pgminfo/du/

The FAQ of Depleted Uranium http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/background/du.html


Extremist is somewhat right. There is a thread because of the radioactive Isotope. Even the US-army says that. But As always Arkados has made a pretty unlikely extrapolation just to piss you of.

 

We disussed this in my chemistry class, and it's very unlikely those depleted uranium bullets have much to do with the cancer. It was most likely soldiers who picked them up, because they're rather pretty and fascinating by their heavy weight, would get diseases.

More likely all of the dust was filled with bacteria from various tests and in-war uses of biological/chemical weapons(e.g. gas) or bad hygeine in the area.

[This message has been edited by Lokken (edited September 13, 2001).]

 

Do you always go to Mother Jones and Canadian television for your data?

 

Depleted Uranium, let me remember what I still know from my NBC protection course:

-emmits alpha rays (weak, can't even pierce a sheet of paper and do not cause cancer)
-toxicity ? Well, DU is not toxic by nature or in ammunition form. The toxic part comes with the impaxt reaction, the uranium oxyde dust is the problem iirc

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited September 13, 2001).]

 

Of course Shralp
Sorry I didnt read the .ca

Here is an US-surgeon release: Basicly the risk is breathing DU-dust. http://www.geocities.com/mothersalert/cancerdu.html

EDITED HERE: I jsut wanted to encourage some dataresearch insted of. Yes.No.Yes.No

[This message has been edited by Nobleman (edited September 13, 2001).]

 

Does anyone have a link on how to make an amulet out of it?

 

Nice to have you back and sain shralp Should I post a US-medical link that doesn't consider it a thread. Based on actual numbers and cancer? Naaah.

 

Who's sane?

They just evacuated my building for a bomb threat.

Get this: My boss says that we have to work overtime or take personal time off if we went home early last Tuesday.

Mind you that we work right next to several Federal buildings in the heart of DC. This is ridiculous.

 

I wish to extend my prayers to all those who lost loved ones in the attacks on New York and Washington. This is tragic time for America. I hope that the resue attempt continues and that more survivors are founds. I'd like to extend my feels of regret and heart felt thanks to the families of the fire fighters, polices and other resue workers to gave up their lives so that other might have a chance to live. They are the true hero of Tuesday's events.

I feel that the US will find out who committed these acts and once proof is collected we will bomb them back into the stone age. For our response may not be swift but it will be lasting.

[Edit]- Alex in response to what you wrote on the first page about the attacking being the response to blunders in the middle east and the end of 40 years of US policy. Let me say - your wrong. I'd like to use stronger words but I'll respect Tal's rules on language. The actions taken on Tuesday were only cause by the group that committed them. The US was not at war and was not attacking any other country. These groups or maybe it nations that committed this act did so for the simple fact that they hate us and what we stand for. There are only a hand full of nations in the world the seperate the civilized world from the barbarian fringe. The west is attempting to entire the 21st century and many of these peoples are reverting to the 13th century. The freedom of movement, speech, religion, the oppertunities for all men and women are things these cultures (or lack there of) wish to repress. That is why the attack happened. When you say "what did you expect" you are speaking foolishness. I didn't 'expect' such behavoir. but if this is the coin they wish to deal in we will resort in kind.

[This message has been edited by Voltric (edited September 13, 2001).]