WTF??!! UK can't deport Somali criminals and has to pay them

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What utter nonsense. I despise criminals, not skin colors. I don't care if a criminal immigrant is coal black from Africa or snow white from Sweden, if that criminal rapes, murders, steals, assaults, or whatever on the soil of this country that took them in, then they should lose the right to be here and be sent back to their country of origin.

I have taught many "dark skinned" people over the past 5 years or so, and a lot of them are decent, hardworking people who (if I were a manager) I would hire in a heartbeat. So subtle insinuations that I'm some sort of moronic, racist don't fly with me.

As for landed immigrant or refugee, I am well aware of the legal differences. I just don't care. If you are from somewhere else and commit a serious crime, you should lose your place in the country you obviously don't respect, and be sent home. Ditto for if you are a citizen and frikking well lied on your passport. Citizenship revoked, and back home to face the music, dirtbag!

 

I think Joacqin was being sarcastic

 

LKD - First, I don't believe Joac was being JUST sarcastic. He was speaking specially to "Europe," so your situation might be a bit different in Canada. Nevertheless, race is a large part of this issue regardless of location and he is willing to call people out on it.

Second, I feel we should have open borders, to a reasonable extent. All workers, citizens or not, should pay taxes and be handed a bill for services, such as education, SS, whatever. I don't care if America stays "white" or not, and I think most every honest, hardworking family should be welcome here. I don't care if they can speak English or not. Corporate America does not care [just look at how they exploit that market], so why should the rest of us give a damn? Have you read the labels of common household products these days? They are willing to take anyone's money and do business with people who can't speak English and the rest of us should do the same, IMO.

Anyone who commits a crime here should do the time here. Period. To go through the trouble of sending them back, just so they can come back again, is just stupid. But most illegals are NOT going to be criminals anyway, not any more than those who are already here. In fact, I believe we have created a sub culture of crime regarding undocumented workers with the strict and draconian immigration policies we have in place. Ease up a bit - things will be fine.

 

I don't think learning English should be a requirement for coming to the US either. The one thing I have a problem with is that there are schools in the US (many by where you live Chandos) that teach the majority of the course work in Spanish. These aren't ESL schools - those I support - I just can't imagine why you wouldn't use the education system to encourage the children of immigrants to speak English.

 

Are you describing utopia or the real world? In the real world we know from what is happening in the US and UK that the immigrants we are getting are not coming for education and work, but are coming for free benefits.

Personally, I could get behind what you are proposing. I would just throw in the caveat that if you can't support yourself and your family, out you go. For citizens (which you can't kick out) if they can't support themselves, they go into the military or some sort of civil version. Nobody (except the elderly) should ever just get a check or a benefit for doing nothing. I know I don't.

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I couldn't disagree more. People who are not willing to adopt the culture of the nation they move to are not needed or wanted (at least by me)

 

Does that count for native Americans also?

 

Well then most of the people who live here would never have been allowed in - including my family. They didn't speak English when they arrived. In fact, those who immigrated as adults only learned rudimentary English. It was their children (who went to school in the US) that learned to speak English. Notice I said that ability to speak English shouldn't be a requirement for coming here - I didn't say that they shouldn't make an effort to learn. In fact, I even said that schools should make teaching English to children who don't speak English as their native language a priority. I take it the Snook family tree traces all of its roots from Britain?

 

I think that proficiency in English is important, but it it isn't the be-all and end-all. I'd rather have a law abiding, hard-working non-English speaker than a fluent criminal or deadbeat. However, once an immigrant comes here, a dedicated effort should be made to learn the language of the new country.

The real issue is attitude. As a culture we value diversity, but there has to be boundaries in that diversity. At the current time, Canada is experiencing significant problems because we are allowing in immigrants who believe that everyone sghould bend over backwards to understand, accept, and make allowances for their culture, yet they are not willing to do the same for others. To these people, it's all a one way street. What Snook said isn't popular, but there is a lot of truth in it -- they are not here to work hard, they are here to take advantage of our generous social systems, all the while spitting on the society that is supporting their non-contributing asses.

Of particular interest are the Somalis. Right now they are causing problems in Edmonton (and likely the rest of Canada) far out of proportion to their current numbers. They tend to be uneducated, yet they look down on the country that succored them. I have worked closely with them, and I know when people have such attitudes. They bemoan how Canadian culture is flawed, criticize their hearts out, and yet they have no problem collecting welfare cheques and other social assistance.

In addition, their children are turning to crime. The Somali gangs have made great efforts to infiltrate drug and prostitution trades, but the established gangs have pushed back -- hard. It's gotten violent. Many young Somali men have died violent deaths in Edmonton over the past several years. Often it has been at the hands of other Somalis. In most cases, the police are stymied because the Somali community, playing the "woe is us" refugee card, are claiming that they don't trust authority figures like the police or courts, so they render no help. Then they turn around and whine that the murders go unsolved.

These problems could have been avoided if we'd just selected our immigrants a little more judiciously, weeding out the troublemakers and those who clearly have no respect for the society Canada has created, and seek merely to sponge off it or bleed it dry as criminal parasites. We shouldn't be paying the price of incarcerating any immigrant criminals. We should be sending the criminals back, and as Snook said, giving the rest of the immigrants 5 years (with some support and help) to become self sufficient. Otherwise, back to your country and quit sponging.

You think I'm harsh, but I speak from experience. In my time as an ESL teacher, I saw immigrants who busted hump to learn the language and the culture. They not only went to school, they got night jobs too. They networked. They hussled. They reached out to other cultural groups and made friends with those very different from themselves. I have nothing but respect for these people.

I ALSO saw immigrants who were just milking the system. Sure, they took support money to come to school, but did they make any effort to learn the language? Did they ever do any work at home? Nope! Seduced the canine for months on end, all the while whining that the government support was inadequate. It was certainly adequte for the rest of the students -- the ones with morals and a sense of decency, anyhow. They whined about how they couldn't pay $15 for a public library card to take out some books that would help them learn English and improve their chances of employment, yet they always found the money to take trips back to their home countries! Loser pieces of <snip> is what they were and are. We don't need immigrants like that, no one does. As was mentioned, we have plenty of freeloading buttholes born here, and we can't ship them off, but that is hardly a reason to let MORE freeloaders -- or criminals -- into the country. The sooner we tighten our border controls, and in addition making our expecations of immigrants crystal clear, the better. We can adapt to a lot of things, but certain things we simply cannot tolerate, even in a diverse, free and democratic society.

 

If by that you mean American Indians, then I would say no, we have done enough to them and giving them casinos doesn't seem to be the answer.

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No my family tree is three parts Russian and one part Austrian. None of them spoke a word of English when they showed up. They were all fluent and could read and write by the time of their deaths. However, that shouldn't be surprising as Jews have always focused on education and bettering themselves. While they may have started off in "Jewish slums", as a people they had no desire to stay there and for the most part moved out of the cities as soon as they could. It is a shame that other cultures do not have the same focuses and drives. My dad tells a story that his grandfather used to volunteer to work on Christmas and Easter so a Christian could have the days off. It earned him a lot of respect and the admiration of his coworkers.

 

So this has become a, "My culture is better than everyone else's," rant? How typical.

Jon Stewart on the 14th Amendment and immigartion

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/m...-amendment---equal-protection-and-due-process

 

I'm more of a disciple of Adam Carolla. One of my favrorite bits of his, is that we aren't supposed to judge other cultures. Just because they like to remove the clitoris from little girls doesn't make them worse then us. We just need to be more tolerant and understanding. It is our fault, not theirs.

In other words, I am proud of my culture and I feel it stacks up pretty damn well against most other cultures. Destroying western culture (and in particular American culture) all for the sake of multiculturism is not only stupid it is suicidal. I sometimes wonder how the people on the left do not see this. Do the gays actually think they would be better off in a different society? Do women? Do other minorities? I just can't fathom it.

 

What makes you think western culture is being "destroyed?" I'd say it just adapts. The changes are often in enough to responses to new factors, but the reasons to make those responses are ingrained in the culture already. The developments of gay rights, women's and minorities' rights are based in values inherent in modern western culture (to the extent we can generalize enough to say there is A modern western culture). Why do you think they arose in the West and not, say, India or China?

Yes, the US and other countries change. All societies change. England or the US today are different from what they were 100 years ago, just as they were different then from what they were 200 years ago (and I imagine there was quite the outrage against the influx of "undesirables", whose descendants are now considered "proper" citizens). As long as the cardinal values of what we consider "modern society" - which imo involve issues such as individualism, the rule of law, democracy,and liberty - stand, Western society is not destroyed. Despite all the propagandist outcry (which I'm sure our grandparents also saw in their time) and the occasional minor issue where some of its values are pitted against each other, I don't see it crumbling just yet.

 

I'm with Shaman on this. I'm unsure that western culture is being destroyed. Heck according to the 2010 Census, about 20% of the US population is Hispanic, and that percentage is expected to grow to 25% by 2050. What about the other 75%? I'm assuming you count European Americans as "western", and they are over half the total population. What about African Americans? Are they "western"? Most of them had ancestors living in the US a lot longer than people who are of European decent.

My grandparents also didn't speak English when they got here, although all of them by the time of their deaths spoke it fluently. Two of my grandparents were young enough when they arrived that they learned to speak, read, and write English in US schools. (Although in that particular case, their parents - so my great-grandparents - only learned basic English. Then again, when you're coal miners and steel mill workers, you can probably get by with limited English skills.)

Yes, illegal immigration is a problem - while it's difficult to provide exact numbers, most experts agree that there are at least 500,000 - and possibly as many as 700,000 - people entering the US illegally every year, most of whom are Hispanic. But the US also accepts about 1 million LEGAL immigrants every year. About a quarter of them are from Mexico, and more than a quarter are from various nations in the Caribbean, Central, and South America. Most of the remaining immigrants are from Asia, with China, Vietnam, and Korea all in the top 10. There are no European nations in the top 10, and the only nation that can reasonably be interpreted as "western" for immigrants to the US is Canada - which is 9th on the list.

So it seems like US policy allows for far more "non-westerns" to legally enter the country than any other group by a wide margin. According to the 2010 Census, 43 million people living in the US today are either foreign born, or 1st generation Americans.

 

Two quick things, regarding immigration in AZ, NM, Cali and Texas [where I am]:

1. Spanish IS a European language. And so is Catholicism, the major religion of Hispanics, which is from the "West." So you have both language and religion that are, for the most part, from Western culture.

2. Think about, for just a moment, what we are doing to other cultures -- and by force of arms. Oh, that's different, I'm sure.